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kateSo I saw this post on tumblr about fic that has Lan Wangji say "Wei Ying" instead of "you" and that it is not at all how it would be translated from the Chinese and it's a bit mystifying considering it doesn't happen in the source material at all but it seems to have become a fic convention.
I know for a fact I have done this in at least in one fic, if not more than one, and I think it might be related to this other post on tumblr about Lan Wangji talking in a higher register of speech, generally. (Hilariously, that post says it's about Lan Wangji but it's really more about Wei Wuxian and the way his register speaks to plot, characterization, and mood, but it's a fascinating read either way.)
So what I'm thinking happened with the whole Lan Zhan saying "I love Wei Ying" instead of "I love you" phenomenon (and that's only one example – there are zillions more) is that it is English speakers trying to capture Lan Wangji's register in a way that feels appropriate to them, even if it doesn't translate directly to or from the Chinese. English doesn't have a formal "you" like, say, French. There's just the word "you" for both formal and informal, singular and plural. And it is inherently personal. When English speakers are speaking formally (and I think this might even be truer for Brits, as Americans are inherently less formal), we don't say the word "you". We drop into other weird ways to distance ourselves from the conversation. I can think of a bunch of ways to do this (the royal we, using the word "one" instead of pronouns, etc.) but I think there are some ways in which Chinese uses names that are very foreign to an English ear, so what we've done is try to transliterate the feeling of Lan Wangji's register using something that wouldn't perhaps be directly translated that way, but which gives a similar feeling, using a device (using names in a situations where typically English speakers would use pronouns) that is used in the Chinese language.
I don't know that makes it right, but I think people's hearts are in the right place. It's about the sound of the thing – the rhythm in the turn of phrase, the music of the words. We're trying to recreate something we feel about Lan Wangji's mode of expression in a way that both gives the right connotation within the English language and yet feels like it comes from the Chinese. At least that's what's sort of lurking in the background when I write those things. Now to figure out if I need to change it. I can't tell if it's somehow offensive or just odd-sounding.
Ah, the joys of writing in a language where the canon is translated. I swore to myself I would never do this, and yet here I am. Someone save me.
I know for a fact I have done this in at least in one fic, if not more than one, and I think it might be related to this other post on tumblr about Lan Wangji talking in a higher register of speech, generally. (Hilariously, that post says it's about Lan Wangji but it's really more about Wei Wuxian and the way his register speaks to plot, characterization, and mood, but it's a fascinating read either way.)
So what I'm thinking happened with the whole Lan Zhan saying "I love Wei Ying" instead of "I love you" phenomenon (and that's only one example – there are zillions more) is that it is English speakers trying to capture Lan Wangji's register in a way that feels appropriate to them, even if it doesn't translate directly to or from the Chinese. English doesn't have a formal "you" like, say, French. There's just the word "you" for both formal and informal, singular and plural. And it is inherently personal. When English speakers are speaking formally (and I think this might even be truer for Brits, as Americans are inherently less formal), we don't say the word "you". We drop into other weird ways to distance ourselves from the conversation. I can think of a bunch of ways to do this (the royal we, using the word "one" instead of pronouns, etc.) but I think there are some ways in which Chinese uses names that are very foreign to an English ear, so what we've done is try to transliterate the feeling of Lan Wangji's register using something that wouldn't perhaps be directly translated that way, but which gives a similar feeling, using a device (using names in a situations where typically English speakers would use pronouns) that is used in the Chinese language.
I don't know that makes it right, but I think people's hearts are in the right place. It's about the sound of the thing – the rhythm in the turn of phrase, the music of the words. We're trying to recreate something we feel about Lan Wangji's mode of expression in a way that both gives the right connotation within the English language and yet feels like it comes from the Chinese. At least that's what's sort of lurking in the background when I write those things. Now to figure out if I need to change it. I can't tell if it's somehow offensive or just odd-sounding.
Ah, the joys of writing in a language where the canon is translated. I swore to myself I would never do this, and yet here I am. Someone save me.
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on 2/14/21 12:45 pm (UTC)Because somehow before that time, I simply thought it must have been some direct Chinese translation phrasing that I wasn't aware of. So like you say, my brain automatically interpreted LWJ's use of "Wei Ying" into some sort of Formal or special way to say "You" when addressing him.
But now, knowing it stems from something not canon, my brain has a hard time overlooking it. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the overall story, but I do stumble a bit while reading, every time I see its use.
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on 2/14/21 03:50 pm (UTC)I had a similar assumption before, that it was somehow from the translation, but I think the intent is pure - I mean, the fact that we thought it was from the translation means they did manage to capture the feel they were going for, likely? And the argument of that post is that they are equals, which, yes, okay, but it doesn't then take into consideration the second post I linked up there, about Lan Wangji's register.
What I'm wondering is if Lan Wangji is less formal when it's just him and Wei Wuxian, and perhaps dropping into a less formal register happens. That's way too subtle for a non-Chinese speaker to catch, I'm guessing, and from the translation of the novel, I didn't notice any change in tone, but translation is such a personal thing, each translator is going to choose those sorts of things differently. (And it's been a while, lol.)