kate | Warnings and tags - haven't had this discussion in a while.

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Warnings and tags - haven't had this discussion in a while.

A friend of mine posted this over on tumblr: If someone marks their fic “Author has chosen not to warn”, do you get to get your nose out of joint that it’s not tagged with things that you bother you?

#not a rhetorical question

I don’t. But I have no triggers and few squicks. I also am able to protect myself and stop reading things that may upset me, and then manage the upset myself without too much trouble or emotional damage.

I like to think that if I had triggers or squicks, I would ask a friend to vet the story for me, but I can also imagine I’d look at the tags and go, hm, that looks okay to me, and give it a whirl. It’s exhausting looking out for that all the time, and I think everyone deserves the chance to mess up by being a little optimistic about the lack of *personally* disturbing tags on a fic. And I think it’s fair for them to be upset. I even think it’s fair for them to mention it, and I also think it’s fair for them to be a bit unreasonable in their language, if you’ve hit an honest to god trigger.

I also think that you are not required to tag or warn based on their needs, or their comment. It is your creation and your decision, and I can also understand that it might be upsetting to receive a comment like this, because it can feel like an attack. It may even be worded like an attack.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I have received a comment like this and I made a choice to add the thing the person was talking about to the tags. It took me two days to respond to it and make the decision, though, because I felt like I had been attacked, and I felt it was unreasonable. In the end I decided to do it, because I wanted to protect anyone else who might have triggers about the thing I hadn’t tagged.

These days, I use warnings and tags very purposefully to try and make my stories as safe as possible for others. I want people to be able to make educated choices about what they’re consuming, giving them tools so they can protect themselves. It doesn’t hurt my work, and to me, it is one of the great advantages to fanfiction over books. We’re writing for other fans. We often give gift fanworks because we love other fen. It’s the interaction that makes it better than books. And because of that interaction, I try to protect people who might want to consume my fanworks.

Honestly, holding books up as the end-all, be-all of the way writing should be is bullshit anyway. I read fic that’s better than published books all the time. So why should the way we think tags, warnings, and consumers of our fanworks/other fen should emulate the way books do things? (Not to mention - every OTHER entertainment has a ratings and warnings system. Music, movies, TV. Why not books?)

(And all that said - I *do* use the “Choose Not To Warn” option when the warnings are too complex to really get into or I can’t figure out WHAT to warn/tag for. I figure better safe than sorry - I am hoping that people with triggers will look at that and go “Hmmm, better not risk it.” But I don’t count on that, and if I get a comment, I try to respond gracefully and address the situation as much as I can. *shrug* It’s a complex topic, but in general, I am on the side of protecting others as much as I can. That’s just me, and I don’t judge anyone for thinking or believing differently.)

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I don't have triggers but I do have some squicks that are hardcore. FWIW, they tend to be mostly associated with darker fic (character death, for example). Like you said on this post, a quick glance at the tags does give me a clearer idea of whether or not I can handle something that's been tagged "Choose Not To Warn".

If it's Bandom fic, then I ask my BFF to read it (like you, she had very few squicks and no triggers) and then give me any/all warnings I need.

Things got v. interesting for me when I got into MCU. Basically because, for the most part, I had no one checking fics for me (my BFF didn't fall for MCU's charm as much as I tried, LOL!). My compromise, if I'm still unsure about the story, is to scan the comments. I don't mind being spoiled because I have tons and tons of fic bookmarked to read so I won't remember any spoilers. A bonus is that I get to make sure that I'll enjoy the fic too.

As far as my own writing, I do tag for things that I know might be squicky or triggery to people. The way I see it, just like there are fic readers who might not like a type of kink or trope, there are others who do. If I tag it, those who don't like it will avoid it and those who do will find it.

Also, yeah, I think I read an average of 1 book for every 20 fics I read? What's super fascinating to me is that there's A BIG crossover between fic and profic going on since the past 3 years or so (at least in the M/M genre). Tropes such as pretend dating and knotting have begun to pop up in enough books for me to notice. Also, some publishers are going as far as acknowledging that XYZ book is based on a fic in ABC fandom.

FTR, I do know some people (who aren't in Fandom) that have always been outraged at fic writers daring to sell their stories by filing down the serial numbers. A good story is a good story, imho so I simple roll my eyes.

Edited (Had to fix my grammar) 2016-01-24 01:57 (UTC)

These are excellent points for how to protect yourself. Thanks for giving those.

And I agree about tags being a double-edged sword [insert more appropriate metaphor here, because that is JUST NOT RIGHT but I can't think of the correct one] because they are both warnings for those who want to protect themselves AND enticements for those who are looking for those things. I really like tags and how they help people make decisions about fic. It's just tough for me to figure out what tags to include, based on how much someone/thing is in a fic. If it's a potential trigger, it gets tagged no matter what. If it's an enticement, I don't want to put something on the fic that is for a tiny piece of the story and then have the person looking for that be disappointment (this is mostly for longer fics).

Yeah, I don't really understand the upset about what other people do with their stuff. It's their choice, yeah? And if someone's getting their nose out of joint about it, it says more about them than it does the author.

Interesting discussion.

I come from popslash, and when I learned the ways of that particular fandom, it was pretty normal practice to post new stories in one's LJ with little more than a cut tag to protect the innocent. I suppose some people would put up a header with rating, pairing, etc, but it wasn't universal. (I still mutter curses when required to put ratings on fics for rec communities, podfic etc.) I don't do ratings on my stories, which is, I realise, as much a wilful lack of advertising as anything else, but I figure that most readers are old enough to see a 15-rated movie, and that'll do for me.

Warnings, though... I decided a while back that I would warn for death or rape/noncon/dubcon. Not that any of these crops up very often, for I am a soft and fluffy writer, by and large. However, like someone else in comments here, I often use 'Choose not to warn' if there is an issue in the fic that isn't really an issue—a death that isn't real, for instance, that I don't want the reader to know in advance isn't real. Also, I'd rather have a 'Choose not to warn', ( I think of it as 'caveat lector') than a warning that's misleading.

I usually go for minimal spoilerage rather than maximum tagging. I wonder if this style of presentation is rather 'old school' now that we're more generally aware of the audience's potential vulnerabilities? It's quite possible that if I were writing in a fandom with any actual readers, I'd be more up to date on it all.

I tend to use the "Choose Not to Warn" and then include relevant notes in the Notes section at the beginning of the fic. A lot of my fics are more suggestive/implying than anything else. There aren't any graphic rape scenes, for example -- the rape is implied as having happened off-screen, etc. So I won't use the Rape/Non-Con warning and I won't tag for that, because on the flip side of people not wanting to read it there are people who do and I don't want them to think my fic is something it isn't. I do try to be as specific as possible in tags and/or notes because I have had people triggered by one of my old dubcon fics, which I felt really bad about. I made an effort to tweak the notes and tags on that one to make sure everything was covered and now I'm very careful to be as specific as possible about what my fic is about and that it may contain content that could be upsetting.

As far as approaching fics like this as a reader: I won't get my nose out of joint at the author because they have every right to write whatever they want, and to use the "Choose Not to Warn" option -- it's there as an option for a reason. But I may choose not read the fic or save it until a time when I feel better if there are no clues or info about what might be in it in the summary, notes or tags. Sometimes comments on the fic can help too.

The notes section can be a super-useful too, and I also use it when I have difficulty tagging/deciding the warnings.

And you've touched on a point

glitteryv brings up above, too, that tags are used by readers for any number of ways, not just as a warning system, but in a way of helping determine what they want to read. I think I would still probably put anything about noncon/dubcon in the tags myself just because I know even mentions of it can trigger someone. I would still add in the notes that it's offscreen, but I think I tend to err on the side of safety. (And to be fair, I don't write much noncon, but when I do, it's front and center - I don't put noncon offscreen. Usually either I can leave it out altogether or it needs to be highlighted in some way. Unless it's just a part of canon that I'm acknowledging, which... ugh, that gets messy.)

The small amount of onscreen stuff I've written is more dubcon but people have found the way I write dubcon extremely triggering. I don't really write rape/non-con so much as dubcon. I have a really hard time writing (and reading) graphic rape/non-con, plus I think I bring my own issues to it...so yeah, it gets really messy. Unless it absolutely needs to be in the story for a purpose, I tend to stay away from both in my writing.

Yeah, I actually like dubcon, like a lot, so I get it. I also get that the thing I like most about dubcon is the very thing that is often triggering for others.

I don't mind noncon, I guess, but I only write it when it is a key component for some reason or another, and (so far) it's never been sexualized. I haven't written it in a long time and I'm not sure I'll write it again - I don't feel like I need to anymore.

Anyway, that in particular is a huge trigger that I like to make sure is highlighted particularly to make sure anyone who needs the information to stay away has it.

I'm someone who uses tags, and I thank you for your approach.

You are very welcome - I am glad it is useful for you! <3

This is a well-thought out response; I like it. I have a very similar policy, especially regarding Choose Not To Warn. Tags are the best, though I developed them slowly -- in our classic Post Fic To Livejournal days we didn't do it, and while I love it conceptually I often struggle with finding the right tags. There's a tag cloud for AO3, thankfully, but it's not fandom-specific, which I'd prefer.

I also struggle trying to find the right tags - especially when I think something might be triggery and I don't know how to describe it. I also am bad at using tags as enticements! I see some people with 50 tags on their long fic, and by the time I'm done writing it, I'm basically like... *squint* what the hell happened 30k words ago?

I like Choose Not To Warn as a way to let people know there may be something in there but I am not sure what the hell it is.

Honestly, holding books up as the end-all, be-all of the way writing should be is bullshit anyway. I read fic that’s better than published books all the time.

ITA.

And as someone who has had part of their day ruined by an unexpected death fic, I thank you for warning.

I'm sorry to hear about the deathfic, hon. That's happened to my wife, too, which is exactly where my personal policy comes from.

Thanks. And tell her I'm sorry for her experience.

Thanks, bb. <3

I find the whole warning system a bit flawed, really, because you can never, if you look at a group of warnings on a story, be certain that the story doesn't have your particular trigger in it. Anything can potentially be a trigger to someone out there and the author of the story might not even know that something could be problematic to someone. You just can't tell and you can't compile a list of every possible trigger out there or every possible squick or turn-off or anything. It would be unwieldy at best.

Warnings for more common ones, character death or abuse or violence or, I don't know, eating disorders, those are fine, but you just can't cover everything.

'Choose not to warn' is, in my opinion, a warning in itself really, and sometimes it's used because the author feels that warning against something in the story gives important plot points away, so if someone with actual problems with triggers reads it and is triggered, well, honestly I feel it is a bit their own stupid fault and it doesn't give them any right to behave rudely towards the author. Like you said, they could have asked someone to check it first for them. Perhaps they could even have contacted the author about it. At the same time, though, I agree that it can be an understandable knee-jerk reaction for the person who was triggered, and although it can be hurtful, authors would do well to try and remember that it's not so much a flame as it's evidence of someone who was accidentally made to feel very uncomfortable and treat it as the misunderstanding it is. Like you did, really, when you eventually decided to add the tag for that particular warning in your story.

I think I've just reached the conclusion that I'm in two minds about the whole thing, really...

I use Choose Not to Warn as a warning when I post, both because sometimes tagging the specifics would ruin the suspense/surprise and sometimes because I suspect that while nothing in the story triggers or squicks me and I can't think of a warning tag, there's stuff there that will bother someone.

I'm considering (if I ever finish and post something again) adding an author's note at the beginning in conjunction with the Choose Not to Warn, urging anyone with a potential trigger to contact me and ask about their trigger specifically. Not only would I happily answer, since I don't want reading my story to result in anything hurtful, but it may alert me to a trigger that I will add a warning for once I'm made aware of it.

Because it's true, fanfic isn't the same as books in print or even ebooks, and one of the ways it's better is the intersection of readers/writers and that you can always edit both your text and your tags.

I use Choose Not to Warn as a warning when I post, both because sometimes tagging the specifics would ruin the suspense/surprise and sometimes because I suspect that while nothing in the story triggers or squicks me and I can't think of a warning tag, there's stuff there that will bother someone.

This, exactly! I often just know that I've written some things that could bother people, but I can't find a name or tag or whatever to put to it.

I've seen those notes you're talking about, and I really like them. I think I will add one to my fic, too. I am a pretty fluffy writer all in all, but I still err on the side of caution.

Oooh, you're right - I love that part of posting on the archive, editing my typos sometimes years after the fact. And yes, updating and fixing is a genuine advantage of fanfic over books, to be sure.

I agree that the warning/tag system isn't perfect, but to me, that's not a reason not to use it to its best advantage. I do as much as I can, recognizing that I can't do everything - and there's no way for me to know who might be reading a story, and thus plan for their individual triggers (I have a friend who can't do vomiting - I am careful to mention any vomiting when I rec things to her, but I would never have thought of vomiting as a strong squick before I met her).

So yeah, I'm sure I won't ever be able to catch everything, but I can catch as much as I can think of, and be open to comments when I catch someone off guard, and add tags and/or warnings when it happens. And sincerely apologize - not for my story, but rather that they were hurt. Most of all, I don't want to hurt people, intentionally or accidentally, and I am sorry for their hurt, even if I wouldn't change the thing that caused it. I would like to change the early-warning system if I can, to prevent it from hurting someone else.

I feel it is a bit their own stupid fault

This is a bit out of order, here. If you are neurotypical, and have no squicks or triggers, then saying this so derogatorily is very much your privilege showing. For people who have triggers, sometimes they can lose hours or days due to reading a fic that seemed perfectly safe on the outside. And most of the people I know with triggers are EXTREMELY careful about their reading habits, but imagine every single time you see something, to wonder if it has this ingredient that makes you sick - that may or may not be on the label based on the knowledge or whimsy of the person who put it up there. Having to vet every single story is a) exhausting and b) not necessarily possible, if you don't have extremely indulgent friends who are in the same fandoms you are (see

glitteryv's comment about MCU above).

I am very much in the corner of people writing what they want to write, and tagging it the way they want to tag it, but it is not okay to defend those rights by laying the responsibility completely off on people with squicks or triggers and saying they're dumb for not doing a better job of managing those squicks or triggers.

his is a bit out of order, here. If you are neurotypical, and have no squicks or triggers, then saying this so derogatorily is very much your privilege showing. Leads directly back to 'choose not to warn' being a warning in itself that this may not be safe for you and therefore you should take precautions by asking someone to look it over for you or ask the author or even some of the other people who have commented on the story "does this story contain xyz?". If you simply choose to ignore it in spite of you knowing you have triggers, well, then, yeah, you could have avoided that, couldn't you?

That is true - but we all make mistakes, and none of us like to be called names. And I can imagine that if I had to spend my whole life exhaustively checking everything I read through another person, I might take a chance here and there, and wouldn't want to be called an idiot for that when luck doesn't fall on my side.

I'm not trying to mince words here, but I never said they were stupid. I said it was their own stupid fault, which is not the same thing. We all do things now and then which we shouldn't and it'll be our own stupid fault through lack of care, lack of attention or whatever. Doesn't mean we're actually idiots.

I will also just mention that at no point did I encourage unpleasant replies to such comments. I did in fact say, or at least tried to say, that the author in question should try to recognise it as the misunderstanding it is and work from there.

I'm sorry, but that is mincing words. It's fine, assuming that you really don't think people with triggers are idiots (and your use of "we" makes me think you are one of them, in which case, I have no more comment - as a person with triggers, you're welcome to speak of your own group in your own way).

I did want to point it out, though, because it is something I try very hard to avoid myself, and had to choose my words carefully in the post and my responses. Because I believe authors have the right to write and tag as they like, and I still would like to protect people with triggers, I'd love for it to be as simple as just "people with triggers should vet every single story through someone else" but honestly, that just doesn't seem reasonable to me.

It's too much like my gluten allergy where I weigh the consequences of something that might have gluten, whether or not asking will actually get me an accurate answer (lots of chefs don't KNOW what foods contain gluten besides wheat), and whether or not what I'm about to eat might be worth the possibility that I could be miserable for a few hours or days. Sometimes I get sick of having to go through the whole rigamarole and I just say "fuck it" and eat the thing. And sometimes I get lucky, sometimes not. This feels very much like that to me, and let me tell you, when I find extremely conscientious places that include detailed gluten information on their menus, it is a huge relief and makes me so happy. I try to be that gluten free menu - and I try not to be judgmental about folks who are sick of asking their friends to vet every single story for them. My point was simply to point out that it's not idiocy - it's simple human frustration and desire. I want to avoid putting judgments on it, especially because I don't have triggers so I'm not in a position to judge.

And thank you - I agree that your comment was not disrespectful overall or calling for mean answers from authors. I tried to recognize that in my first part of the original comment, and apologies if that didn't come across.

Oh, that gluten-free analogy is spot on!

I try to be that gluten free menu

Aha! From another celiac, that is the best. It carries through to the "big 8" ingredients which must be labeled in the US; "choose not to warn" is like the "this product was produced in a facility where there are tree nuts, soy, dairy..."

Choose Not To Warn is a warning in itself, to me - it means the author didn't know how to tag/warn or didn't want to for whatever reason. I don't fault authors for using it, no matter what their fic contains. It means "readers beware" in an unspecific way, and if a reader chooses not to "beware", it's their responsibility. I get my nose *seriously* out of join when authors pick, say, "No Archive Warnings Apply" for a fic that has dubcon or noncon in it, though, or other "it has X common trigger in it but I didn't warn for it even though I marked this fic for other common triggers and picked certain Archive warnings".

Yes, this!!

I agree, actually, and I use it exactly in the way you mention. And mostly, I don't get many, if any, comments like the one my friend got, so apparently I'm doing a good job of warning away people who want to be warned away?

I haven't run into any mislabeled fanworks with such an extreme warnings issue before, so I'm sorry that happened to you. And yes, I would probably get my nose out of joint, too - it's one thing to choose not to warn and announce that fact, it's entirely different to choose not to warn and then actively deceive the reader that there's nothing in your story that might be disturbing or even harmful.

I'm actually kind of baffled by using "Choose not to warn" AND using warning tags. The whole point of CNTW is that you're not warning. And you're saying the reader needs to either take the responsibility of making sure the story isn't triggering (by having a friend read it or what have you) or not read it.

Once you start putting any kind of warning tags on it, people will start to expect that they are comprehensive.

Yes, but people use the Choose Not To Warn for any number of reasons. I often tag as much as I can, and if I feel like I haven't covered everything in the fic that might be potentially disturbing/hurtful but I can't think of any other tags, I will add "Choose Not To Warn" so that I err on the side of caution.

Also, there are all kinds of different "Choose Not To Warn" levels. One one extreme, it might be a newbie writer who put explicit gay sex in it for the first time and feels like that needs a warning (I have issues with this, but let's just use it for an example) and doesn't have any idea what to tag it, so leaves that area blank.

And then there's the person who feels that their fic, like a book, shouldn't be bound by tags or warnings and includes a rape scene and extreme violence and body horror, all bound by the "Choose Not To Warn" warning and no tags.

Those two fics have the exact same warnings/tags but extremely different content. And there's no way to know which is which. I'm not saying either author is wrong, but as a reader, if I read them one after the other, I might have a bit of a gearshift headache.

I am in support of both of those authors choosing to use that warning/tag system. And I would hope my friends with squicks and triggers would vet those stories with friends (and likely they would, at least in my experience). Reading the comments, I hear from some friends above, is another good way to protect themselves, so that was an interesting and useful hint.

There is also the fact that "Choose Not To Warn" is an actual warning, and the tags are content markers. Not everyone tags their warnings. Some people might not want to warn, but want to include tags to be searchable (and to be honest, I think those first two authors are shooting themselves in the foot by not using tags, because they are probably losing a lot of traffic to their stories). It's perfectly reasonable to use the not-warn option, and then tag for first time, canon AU, knotting, and bondage, but not the noncon. It's not what I would do, but it is definitely something I can see other authors doing, particularly if they feel like the noncon is an important plot point that would ruin the ending if the reader knew. (I don't really buy into that argument, myself, but I get it.)

For me though, I use the "Choose Not To Warn" warning as a catchall of things I might have forgot, and tag for everything, content and warnings and enticements. A lot of traffic is driven by tags, so I'm always confused by people who don't use them, no matter what their warning choice is.

I think the AO3's system is a great compromise for people who want content labels, whether readers or writers, and authors who do not want to give away plot points. And your point about the tighter relationships between readers and writers inside fandom is great, as well as the reminder that unlike published work, which becomes fixed in form, authors of fanfic can always go back and tweak tags and category markers as trends change in fandom, or based on feedback from readers.

I treat "Choose Not to Warn" as a great big red flag, because I do have some pretty severe squicks for certain things that fandom loves as kinks. I don't have anything that I would describe as triggering, but there are definitely things I do not want to read and so I appreciate the chance to skip it or ask someone about the content.

Yes, exactly. I think the system of tags, warnings, and notes can allow for a surprising amount of flexibility for both fanwork creators and consumers. It's a pretty robust system, that way.

I also tend to think of Choose Not To Warn as a sort of caveat emptor, but knowing that there are people who put it on everything from fluff to extreme noncon means that I try not to make any assumptions about what might be in there, and I don't blame people for occasionally attempting a fic - especially if there are relatively non-threatening tags. I know how much I would hate to go to my friends to vet every single thing and if I could make an educated guess... *shrug* It's a complicated issue.

Yeah, this is why the AO3 in addition to "Choose Not To Warn" offers "No Archive Warnings Apply", so if you don't want to tag everything but you want people to know there's nothing big to worry about (I thought the narrow list of Archive Warnings that AO3 settled on was a good one), you can use the latter.

But some people who are against warnings as a matter of principal, I guess, would go ahead and put "Choose Not To Warn" on everything as their default. Usually, though, based on the rating plus that, I am generally guessing that the "Choose Not To Warn" fics are probably violent in some way or have elements that people might want a warning for in other circumstances. Educated guesses are what we do in profic, too. And reading reviews and asking friends!

Another option that I've seen/used is "Additional warnings in notes." I had a scene of PTSD once that I was worried about, so in the notes I put which part you should skip if that triggered you.

I have occasionally tried a "choose not to warn" fic and at least I was braced when things started heading for my trigger buttons, you know? But it *is* exhausting to check every time or ask for help every time. Sometimes I just make an educated gamble, and it's not my "stupid fault" when I lose, but at least I knew the risks going in.

Yeah, someone upthread was mentioning putting more information in the notes, and I've got a fic I'm working on right now that's going to have so many tags and warnings and I'm STILL going to put something in the notes, because better safe than sorry. (It's PTSD, too - if you have any resources from your research, I wouldn't say no to those, either!)

I totally understand. I sort of look at it the same way my gluten allergy works when I'm eating out (and I get a lot of similar "that's not a real thing, just buck up and eat the bread" sort of reactions to that, too). I hate that, and sometimes it's easier to just read the menu and make a guess and know that if something happens, well. Like you said - I knew the risks going in.

Also, ♥.

I mostly went from my own experience and dramatized from there, but if I think of anything I'll let you know.

I'm gluten sensitive and have to be, not allergy careful, but pretty darn careful, and I do the same thing!

Thank you! And apologies, shouldn't have assumed it was research and not personal. Fortunately for me, it's all research, so I am looking for all the resources I can not to fuck it up.

Yeah, I think of myself as gluten sensitive, too, but I use allergy in public, partially because a) it really is an allergy - just because something doesn't kill you doesn't mean you're not having an allergic reaction (and I understand that with celiac disease it CAN actually kill them, so I understand wanting different nomenclature in this case) and b) say you're gluten sensitive and people's reactions get even MORE dismissive, ugh. But yeah - we are totally in the same boat, there. I eat out A LOT and it's just not worth it to ask the kitchen about every little thing. Sometimes the chefs don't even know, so it doesn't matter anyway. Blargh, gluten.

This.

My specific squicks and one trigger are not Archive warnings and I'm blessed with (generally) a small readership, most of whom I know, so I can warn for animal harm (which is a squick specific to me as well as for several people who I know have me bookmarked on AO3, but is not one of the AO3's warn tags (reasonably! I'm not arguing the official tags be extended.) ) in the notes at the *top* of the story.

(Yes, it's a squick; yes, I've written it. But poking my own scars should not result in G following the email to my newest posted story and having to click back and leave the computer to calm down.)

But I recognize that's a luxury that better read authors don't have, and I'm happy to edit tags / warn in notes / add warnings when after consideration (and often discussion with others), I consider the request reasonable. I'm not going to "warn" for a background pairing or specific positions.

I'm not going to "warn" for a background pairing or specific positions.

Ugh, yeah, no.

When I first got into fandom, there was still the trend of warning for slash. Which I was kinda like...really? We need to warn for that? I've also seen warnings for het and rolled my eyes and backbuttoned the hell outta there.

tagging for something, I can see - because hey, sometimes you're just in the mood for a certain something, you know? And I love people who tag for certain acts, even as I myself fail at it, because I tend to think in gen terms.

But I co-write with a friend who is in SPN/J2RPF and twice now she's gotten comments of "Please warn for bottom!character, because I only read top!character" to which we gave an appropriate amount of thought and then went back to our tea.

So I don't know that it's fandom-specific, but it might be.

I'm all for tagging for specific acts (and I'm REALLY bad at it myself, too) because yeah, when you're in the mood for a particular [something], it's nice to be able to search by that [something].

I've heard that warning for who bottoms/who tops was a thing in SPN/SPN RPF, and I know I've heard of it happening in Sherlock fandom, as well as some anime/manga fandoms. I stick pretty close to home, fandom-wise, so I don't know if there are others.

The strangest thing I've ever heard being warned about was Blair's hair in the Sentinel fandom. Apparently his hair is a THING for a lot of people, and there was a story in which he cut OFF HIS HAIR and people got really upset, and from that point on, Blair's hair being cut needed to be warned for...

Fandom is an odd animal. :D

Very interesting replies. I'm just gonna say that I'm in favor of warning tags. As an author myself, I don't see the harm in it to the author. Unless it spoils something in the fic that's a major point, in which case, I've used end notes before in case anyone wanted to know ahead of time, but saved those who didn't want to be spoiled. I may forget a tag or not realize a tag was needed, but, like you, I would rather err on the side of not triggering someone if I can prevent it. As a reader, I appreciate knowing what I'm getting into before I start a story, even if it's not a trigger, but a general dislike.

I'm the Bandom (but not MCU) BFF

glitteryv mentions above, and in general, she's right - I mostly have no real triggers or squicks - and yet...

I got triggered a few years ago by a podfic that had graphic talk of animal harm - and there was no warning for it. If there had been, I would have skipped over the story because I'm not comfortable with animal harm in stories.

I went to leave a comment about the lack of a warning (politely, of course) and someone else had beaten me to it (also politely). The author added a warning, but also remarked that they thought the "talk of genocide - light-hearted, I swear" author's note had covered the animal cruelty parts.

But even before this, I always tried to warn for the most common-ish triggers. I don't usually use "Chooses Not To Warn" - I don't care about spoiling the plot/ending of the story, I mainly don't want people to have to go through what I went through when I was triggered.

It never occurred to me to use that as a way of saying "none of these warning apply."

I'm not the best tagger of my fanworks, in spite of being a tag wrangler at the AO3 for a number of years. I've been wanting to go back and review the tags on my work, make sure that possible triggering content is listed, but I've been putting it off, because it's sort of daunting (I have a lot of fanworks up at the AO3).

At the same time, the warning system isn't as flexible or as useful as it could be.

For instance, I write a lot of fics that take place in a universe where death is not necessarily permanent. So...when a character dies, they often come back. Do I warn for Major Character Death? I know for a fact that that warning will keep people from reading the story. What about consensual sexual contact between two underage characters? Does that warrant the Underage warning?

Just to be on the safe side, I tend to over-warn and then add notes at the beginning to explain.

*hands* No easy answers.

I guess for me it is very much on the reader to decide what they're okay with reading or not. I think there is only so much a writer can do - I understand triggers are often very idiosyncratic and different for everyone, and I just do not think it is possible to warn everyone via tags. (For example, there's regularly discussion about what is enough to warrant a tag - sometimes people looking for X kink or Y trope are disappointed because it doesn't feature prominently, or there's untagged this or that).

On the flipside I think it's fair that if you took the risk and got triggered, of course you can be upset or angry or whatever you feel. It would be unreasonable to say "well, you can't have feelings" even if it was clearly warned for. But to me, if it's been tagged "Read at your own risk" then going after the author rudely, guilt-tripping, etc is uncalled for. The decision rests eventually with the reader whether or not to go past the warnings. A polite note saying "can you could warn for common trigger X" would be okay to me personally; it's something concrete for the writer to do something with and possibly help others (whereas unloading their feelings on the author will...what? Make them feel better? Try to make the author stop writing whatever?)

Personally since there are people who surf tags (seeing them as enticements) I prefer to tag the prominent things and then use the endnotes to content warn, saying "Content warnings in endnotes" in the front-notes to avoid spoilers. Kinda complicated but I think it avoids the problems of over-promising on the tags, still letting people know what's in it, and not spoiling the plot.

aaaaand I see that my comment was a duplicate basically of another. Should have read the comments first!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Warnings and tags - haven't had this discussion in a while.

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