kate: Kate Winslet is wryly amused (Default)
[personal profile] kate
Because I use these A LOT in my technical writing, thought it might be useful for others out there.

i.e. = "that is" (or, "in other words")
e.g. = "for example"

Memory trick: Imagine that i.e. means “in essence,” and e.g. sounds like "egg sample."

Also, since I'm thinking of it, American dialogue attribution punctuation/capitalization, which only has a few variations but is something people get endlessly wrong. (For American English, punctuation is always within the quotes. Commas before attribution (she said), periods before non-attribution (actions other than saying, asking, exclaiming, etc.).)

"I say," she said.
"I say!" she exclaimed.
"I say?" she asked.
"I say," she said, "this is ridiculous."
"I say." She turned to me and stuck her tongue out. "This is ridiculous."

on 1/6/16 03:42 pm (UTC)
curiouscorvid: (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] curiouscorvid
Thank you! I actually wasn't sure at all about some of that, although I felt the comma should be cradled within the quotations. :D

on 1/6/16 04:17 pm (UTC)
flo_nelja: (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] flo_nelja
Thank you!
You say "in American English", is this different in English from England, or are you just not sure?

on 1/6/16 06:23 pm (UTC)
angrboda: Close-up of hedgehog bristles, with my username written above (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] angrboda
Wondering this as well.

I've always put it inside the quotations, because although 'I say," he said.' is technically only one sentence, it feels a bit like two and the quotations are part of the first sentence. (This makes total sense in my head!)

on 1/6/16 08:21 pm (UTC)
spikedluv: (misc: candy cane heart by candi)
Posted by [personal profile] spikedluv
Thanks for that tip. I believe I have been using eg and ie interchangeably.

on 1/6/16 08:36 pm (UTC)
china_shop: Bert and Ernie have a rubber duck (Bert & Ernie with rubber duck)
Posted by [personal profile] china_shop
Your examples are all correct in UK and NZ English, afaik. The area where we differ is with quoted material. In NZ (and, I believe, UK) English, you only put punctuation that is part of the original quote inside the quotation marks.

He described the monster as "slimy, not gooey"; we agreed.

Whereas I believe in US English it would be

He described the monster as "slimy, not gooey;" we agreed.

I don't know if US English distinguishes between

He said it was "gross!" and He said it was "gross"!

To me, in the latter the exclamation mark is reacting to his statement, not to the grossness of it.
Edited (typos -- of course) on 1/6/16 08:37 pm (UTC)

on 1/6/16 08:56 pm (UTC)
china_shop: Neal, Peter and Elizabeth smiling (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] china_shop
but in American English, the only "correct" way would be to have the exclamation point inside the quotes.

Would that also be true for a question mark?

I've grown used to putting full-stops and commas inside the quotes, but I struggled a bit before I acquiesced to my beta's recommendation that a semi-colon should be inside, and I'd baulk entirely at a question mark. It changes the meaning!

on 1/6/16 11:02 pm (UTC)
auburn: Auburn: Green Meters (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] auburn
I think a big stumbling point between American and other accepted punctuation is the difference between 'quotes' and "double quotes" as used for dialogue. I read UK books that are type set using just 'quotes' for dialogue, and it's just as easy to follow, but I like the "double quotes" used in the US, it avoids confusion with the apostrophe. I'm probably more sensitive to it as a fiction reader, since fiction has a lot more dialogue.

"He said it was 'gross!', not me," she said. "I don't think it's gross at all. I like it."

Instead of:

'He said it was 'gross'! not me,' she said.

If the exclamation point is outside the quotes, then it's modifying everything before it and not just the quote. I don't know if that's the grammar rule, but that's how I remember which way it works.

I'm forever going to use 'egg sample' to remember e.g. anyway. I love little memory tricks like that.

on 1/7/16 04:03 am (UTC)
msilverstar: (dom lolly)
Posted by [personal profile] msilverstar
I've actually taken to removing i.e. and e.g. from my writing, as they are obscure enough to confuse readers without formal education in English grammar, and ESL. I don't want to force them to stop and figure out what is going on, it screws up the flow of the information. So now I just use "for example", and "that is," which are not as nice but easier for many people.

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